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Major Kehoe, just what are the functions and duties of the Natural Investigations Committee

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on aerial phenomena?

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Our committee investigates all factual reports, sightings of these unknown objects, submits

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them to our scientific advisors, and when we can reach a definite conclusion, we make

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the conclusions public.

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Our attempt is to inform the public of everything that can be told them without violating security.

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Now this information involves somewhat the flying saucer reports that have spread across

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the country and around the world.

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That's right.

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That's a bad name, but it is here, so we have to accept it.

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We use the word the Air Force uses, the term UFO or Unidentified Flying Objects.

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Well have these objects resembled a flying saucer?

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Is that why they reached that name?

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The majority of reports, and the Air Force agrees on that, are of disc-shaped objects,

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which have a diameter about one tenth out of their thickness, and they've been reported

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up in sizes over 300 feet in diameter.

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When was the first one sighted?

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During World War II, there were hundreds of reports of disc or rocket-shaped objects

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by our pilots over in Germany and on the bombing routes to Japan.

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Nobody used the word flying saucers then.

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They thought they were foreign devices, and we found out later that they thought they

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were ours.

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The mystery never was cleared up, but those were the first official sightings.

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Have there ever been any actions from these unidentified objects, such as shootings or

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incidents of any kind?

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No, there has been no proven hostilities.

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There have been three cases where planes have disappeared chasing these objects.

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One captain, Mantell, was killed back in 1948 chasing one of these saucers, and the Air Force

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stated this, and later made the suggestion to have all answers, but they never did have

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a conclusion.

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Does the Air Force work in cooperation with your committee in locating these things and

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reporting on them?

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Not officially.

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The Air Force policy, which has been set long ago, is to keep most of the facts undercover

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until they have all the answers.

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We don't like the policy, but in many of the times we find that people in the Air Force

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don't like it either, but it's set, and therefore of course they have to carry it out.

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We do get information from many people in the Air Force and also retired and reserve

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Air Force soldiers who are trying to get the truth for the public.

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Have more of these unidentified objects been sighted now in the current time as compared

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to years ago?

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No, they vary.

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Right now there is a slight increase in sightings.

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Most of these don't get into the newspapers or on the air, so there is an impression that

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there is complete law.

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Actually, there have been some very important sightings recently.

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They continue regularly all the time.

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That's right.

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They have kept on ever since World War II.

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There have been big increases several years ago, which did get into papers on the air,

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but after the Air Force set its new policy of closing up the files, naturally you don't

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get into them.

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Many times.

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But there is one recently, for instance, over the Pacific where two commercial jet liners,

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one of them a Pan American, the other British overseas airways corporation, just sighted

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a gigantic object, round object, apparently with an open space in the center like the

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planned space base suggested by Von Braun years ago, which of course we are just simply

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talking about.

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This thing moves so fast that it was over the horizon in a matter of minutes.

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It was also sighted and reported and confirmed by the Navy, sighted by a ship in the same

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area.

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So here we have this, apparently, huge space base, which was investigating our globe at

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that time on September 21st.

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October 3rd, out in Utah, in broad daylight, a smaller disk shape was seen by about eight

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pilots, a number of people on the ground, and was pursued by one pilot over Provo Airport.

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Down in Venezuela recently there was a sighting where a number of fishermen saw this thing

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and they were so terrified by it, they all jumped over there, both inside the swimmish

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shore, one man was drowned.

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There's been quite a lot of fear of these things, which has been built up because of

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the secrecy.

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Are there any conclusions to this, just where these machines are coming from?

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We're not drawing any definite conclusion.

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However, it is interesting that every time Mars approaches the Earth, there is a noticeable

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increase in sighting.

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So this has happened since 1948.

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Now, that doesn't mean that they are based on Mars, although it indicates they may be.

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Possibly there is a base.

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It may be the originator of Mars.

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We don't know.

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What about seeing actual persons or beings aboard?

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Has this ever been done?

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Of course, there have been many wild tales of people who claim that things have talked

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with the specimen who came down and stepped out of flying saucers, but we know of only

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one or two cases.

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We accept this as authentic where they saw some kind of creature.

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These creatures were simply seen vaguely, some kind of movement behind the ports or

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control panels.

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And as far as we know, they're simply the creatures of intelligence and interest in

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this planet and so on, and that's as much information as we have.

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But they haven't made any official contact or tried to?

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There have been several brief landings where they've touched down.

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Now, that's as contrasted with these wild claims, that they have touched down and the

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ground has been found radioactive where they rested on the ground for a few moments.

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I don't think we have any proof of any of these beings ever came out during those landings.

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I'd like to ask you some more questions, Major Kehoe, and so I'll continue with my capital

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of silent in just one minute.

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Major Kehoe, these unidentified objects that have been seen and cited and reported on,

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are reports coming in from overseas anywhere that they also are seeing them and are their

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stories as to what they look like?

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Are they the same as our stories?

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Do they compare?

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Yes, they do.

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They're practically the same.

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They've been reports by the armed forces in most foreign countries and the airline

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pilots, astronomers, missile trackers, and so on.

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Discs and rocket-shaped devices.

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In one case, an RAF pilot in broad daylight cited a disc-shaped object that was coming

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at him head-on and he just barely missed it.

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The object was also seen by pilots and other jets in the same area.

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Down in Brazil a few years ago, an airliner flew right into the middle of a formation

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of discs, about 19 of them.

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They were estimated by the pilots as being about 100 feet in diameter.

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This close proximity scared almost all the passengers.

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For a moment everybody was running wild in the ship, or they could be quieted down.

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These objects then do fly in numbers, not just one, is that right?

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They've been reported in many times in formations.

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They've been reported in T and V formations, echelons, and changing from one to the other.

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For instance, from a circle to a line formation, giving absolute proof of intelligent control.

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How about actual speeds?

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Have there been any estimates as to just how fast they can travel?

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They were tracked out of White Sands at the proving ground.

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One object was tracked at 18,000 miles an hour.

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That was by theodolite.

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Four Navy scientists saw this object and they tracked it very carefully.

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There have been other tracking by radar and visual also.

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Now the Air Force, for instance, one night over the Gulf of Mexico, a crew of B-29 bombers

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tracked several small objects moving at about 5,240 miles an hour.

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They tracked them by top watch.

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They were seen off to one side by crewmen looking out the blister windows.

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Later a very large object appeared on the radar scope and one of these formations joined

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this object or merged with it or taken aboard.

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And then this huge machine speeded up and went off the scope at about 9,000 miles an

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hour.

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That's an official Air Force intelligence report.

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Is there any report of this from the Northern Headquarters in Colorado?

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Do they report on this?

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They report what they call unknowns.

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Unknowns can be anything from an unknown aircraft to some phenomena, something like that.

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There have been UFO reports many times.

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We've been told that by Air Force officers, for instance, Captain Edmund Gironde, who

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recently retired and was an intelligence officer as well as a command pilot, says that several

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times there were cases reported in a distant early warning system where they picked them

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up by radar and they were moving in such fantastic speeds that it couldn't possibly be anything

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Russian.

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And these were, of course, sent right on to intelligence, but they were never made public.

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Has there been any ideas to what makes them move?

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What type of power?

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Well, that's speculation again.

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Now, Professor Herman Overth, the great rocket designer, the father of space travel, has

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suggested that they are using a force which has an artificial gravity field.

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In other words, they can move through our atmosphere without heating up or breaking the sound barrier

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and causing a boom.

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But what causes the power itself, he doesn't say.

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It could be cosmic rays, it could be nuclear power, and since they have been radioactive

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where they've touched down, at least some of them, a few of them, at least must use nuclear

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power.

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But they may have some other power outside of our atmosphere, which we don't even know

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about.

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Do our scientists, and by that I mean scientists all over the earth, feel that these machines

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are able or is it possible for them to move around without breaking the sound barrier?

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Obviously, there have been a number of them that have agreed with Overth on that same

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theory that if they have an artificial gravity field, that would cause them to carry a small

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cushion of air, just as the earth takes its atmosphere with it, around which keeps them

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from heating up, they can go up to any speed as far as their power would permit.

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Quite a number of scientists have said that we should do a more careful investigation.

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For instance, Professor Charles P. Oliver, the President of the American Reader Society,

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recently said in a book, Challenge of Unidentified Flying Objects, that the subject of UFOs is

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one which should be studied scientifically, which it has not been due to suppression of

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pertinent data and also to subjecting reports of trained and reputable people to a ridicule.

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Well, that's the feeling held by quite a number of scientists who will help us privately,

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but they don't want to be ridiculed either.

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So, I feel that before very long, they will come out and probably join in a body and make

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this recommendation to Congress or the airport.

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Well, is there any explanation or any idea as to why these objects have not revealed

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themselves as far as making official contact with people, letting them know why they are

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here, what they are doing, if this has been going on for so many years?

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Has it been considered strange that they have never done anything to make any contact at

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all this time?

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That is the usual question, one of the big ones.

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There are several reasons why they might not.

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One of them might be that they are afraid of coming out on this planet where they are

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not immune to our diseases.

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We've recently given a lot of thought to our landing on other planets and worrying about

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diseases there.

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Another thing, our gravity may be entirely different from there, which would make it

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difficult for them to maneuver around.

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They still may not be able to understand us.

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First, if they might be monitoring our rod death, perhaps they can't.

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They may have a lot of problems to solve about contacting us.

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Also, since we chase them and shoot at them frequently, and we chase them, the Air Force

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must chase any unidentified flying object like that by standing orders, they probably

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fear that they won't get a very good reception.

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But it looks as though they are trying to prepare for eventual communication and probably

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landing to.

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Do you feel that the fact that they have a machine that can move at such tremendous

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speeds and do so many things that we cannot do is an indication that they are much, much

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advanced over the Earth?

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Yes, I think that's fairly obvious.

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A number of scientists and others have said the same thing, as they must be, for instance,

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Professor Harlow Shappley, the former director of Harvard Observatory, said there must be

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at least 100 million planets that are populated, and many of them would have races far ahead

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of us.

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And since then, well, dozens of top astronomers have said the same thing.

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The majority leader of the House of Congress, and probably be our next speaker, McCormick,

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said that he told me the same thing.

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We were discussing this.

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He said that he believed that a number of these reports couldn't be explained.

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There was something going on, and we should be told the facts, whether or not the open

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or closed hearings had been decided.

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But he said that it seemed that if they were true, there must be intelligence as far ahead

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of us.

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I'd like to ask you some more questions, Major Kehoe.

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So I'll continue with my capital assignment in just one minute.

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There have been some reports lately about the project the Air Force has been undertaking

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regarding, as it was termed, a flying saucer.

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What connection does this flying saucer have with the unidentified objects, if any?

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Well, that is the Avro project, which was started five or six years ago when the Air

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Force took it over from the Canadians.

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They were trying to design a round device, a typical flying saucer, which would fly

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on jet power.

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However, they had been trying for some time to force down some of these objects, so that

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they could duplicate the propulsion system.

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The Avro was an intermediate step.

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They tried all these years, and finally they gave it up because the best they could do

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was get it about 15 or 20 feet off the ground.

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So after spending approximately $10 million on it, they abandoned it.

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Do you think they'll continue this at a later date?

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No, I don't think so.

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They've given it everything they had on that particular approach.

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Now, if they can find the secret of the propulsion of these UFOs, then they certainly will.

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And they're still trying that.

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They're trying artificial gravity.

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There are about 20 projects in this country, some of them official and some of them in

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private industry, to get the secret of gravity control.

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Would there be any benefit in trying to build a vehicle of our own or a spacecraft that

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could move at such an outstanding speed that might overcome one of these things to capture

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it?

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Well, I should think so.

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We had an awful record statement from one Air Force career officer who said that it

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would be the greatest thing in the world if the Air Force could get one of these in

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its hands and find out all the secrets.

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Providing Russia didn't do it at the same time, we would be very quickly ahead of it.

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Not only here on Earth, but of course in our space exploration.

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All these reports have been from people and the Air Force that there are unidentified

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objects and they all agree that they are shaped the same and what have you.

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Well, do any of these objects have special windows or do they have any portholes?

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Have they ever been seen that closely?

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They could really describe the right to detail.

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Yes, some of them have been seen close enough to get a fairly good picture.

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The captain, child of Eastern Airlines and his co-pilot, Captain Whitehead, cited one

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of these objects as a projectile type approaching them on an airway and it veered at the last

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second and they were put to one side and they said it had two rows of ports through which

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they could see blue fluorescent light and it had to look like a radar snout or a pole

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up on the nose and some type of exhaust similar to jet propulsion.

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It turns so sharply that the blast rocked this airliner.

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There have been two or three other cases where men of this policy describe the same type

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of thing with windows or ports.

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Now the disc, there you often get a report of lighted openings around the edges whether

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that is an exhaust opening or observation port, I don t know.

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Several of these discs have also been reported with small turret or dome effects on top.

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And one report we had recently where one of the witnesses was so frightened that he practically

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blacked out was of the openings in the forward part of this disc as it came down and hovered

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over the car through which he could see figures moving apparently looking down at them.

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So in that one at least there were windows.

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Well then your committee is definitely assured that these objects do exist.

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There is no doubt in your mind about that.

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In the majority of mine, yes.

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Our board of governors and advisors have evaluated these many sightings as massive evidence and

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have concluded, the majority have concluded that the objects are real, they are under

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intelligent control superior to anything we have and they come from an unknown source.

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One of the board members who gave that opinion was Vice Admiral R.H. Hill and got her form

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ahead of Central Intelligence Agency.

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A number of Air Force officers agreeing with this too, most of them who make a name are

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retired or reserved although many on active duty feel the same way.

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Colonel J. Bryan for instance says that they are real, he says they are in a planetary

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and the censorship is wrong and dangerous.

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Major Dewey Farne who is formerly the chief monitor for the Pentagon on this project has

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withheld information and is still withholding it, particularly sightings of the objects.

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I know it gives the impression however that we are trying to attack the Air Force.

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I think the Air Force is in a very bad spot and recently one officer told me that they

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agreed the policy was controlling them instead of their controlling the policy because over

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a period of years they have explained sightings one way or another even though the facts didn't

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always fit and many times it was mere speculation and now they are on record and they don't

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know exactly which way to turn to get it back on the track.

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The easiest way I think would be simply to say we did it in the public interest, we didn't

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want to frighten anybody, we were waiting to get all the answers, we haven't got them

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all now so we are going to give out what we have and that's what we hope to do and we

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are with the release of our five year report to Congress we are going to give this a copy

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to the sector of the Air Force and offer to cooperate in helping to put out this information

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to our organization and our members in 50 states and see if we can change the misunderstanding

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in the ridicule.

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Thank you Major Kehoe.

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I have been speaking with Major Donald Kehoe, Director of the National Investigations Committee

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on Aerial Phenomena.

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This is Al Levy of Mutual News in Washington.

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Capital assignment will continue in one minute.